(AJPW) New Year's Special Feature: Baba and the Demon King's Cheerful Conversation.

Weekly Pro

February 1973

"You and I will conquer the world!" 

The Destroyer declares full cooperation, setting aside ten years of animosity. 

Baba, having faced down formidable opponents during the New Year Giant Series, is currently engaged in heated battles across the country. At the final match of 1972, "The White-Masked Devil"—The Destroyer—suddenly declared his cooperation, delivering major news to the All Japan Pro Wrestling camp; the inside story behind this move was revealed exclusively to this magazine during an interview with Baba and The Destroyer following a friendly golf match held right after the series concluded.

Q: The news that "The White-Masked Devil", The Destroyer, was joining forces with Giant Baba was a bright spot in the Japanese professional wrestling world in 1972. Today, I’d like to ask the two of you to speak candidly about how this partnership came about and share your aspirations for the future.

DESTROYER: By the way, Baba, what was your golf score today...?

BABA: A 48 and a 49—not a great score. How about you?

DESTROYER: Heh heh... I shot a 52 and a 57. I lost, sure, but I was at a huge disadvantage compared to you—using borrowed clubs and wrestling shoes without spikes... So, if I’d really put my heart into it, I would’ve won.

BABA: Not at all; the results simply reflect true ability. The better player wins...

DESTROYER: Alright, don't forget those words. Next time, I'll bring my own clubs and shoes, and we'll face off then.

BABA: Hahaha... No matter how many times we play, the win is mine. I'll take you on anytime.

Destroyer, now an All Japan Pro wrestler, facing off against a foreign opponent.

Q: Hold on a second... let's put the talk about your fun round of golf aside for now and answer this question, too.

DESTROYER: Sorry about that. It just really got under my skin seeing Baba grinning away because he’d won at golf...

BABA: Let's drop the golf talk and talk about the ring—how about that, Destroyer? OK?

Q: The history of your relationship—or rather, your rivalry—spans ten years now, doesn't it?

DESTROYER: That’s right... On April 20th 1962, I put on a mask and adopted the name "Intelligent Sensational The Destroyer", right there on the mats in California. For a full ten years in Japan, my rivals were Rikidozan and Giant Baba... I only crossed paths with Rikidozan for a year, but I went up against Baba for a whole decade.

BABA: You were one persistent fellow, let me tell you. You were hounding me almost every single year.

Q: It all began in early 1963 in Los Angeles, when Baba challenged the reigning WWA World Champion, The Destroyer; over the years, you two alternated roles—sometimes you were the challenger, other times the defender... and that saga finally came to an end in December 1972.

DESTROYER: Yes...I’d grown tired of chasing Baba around. After the match in Niigata settled things between us, I decided we should work together from then on.

Q: By "working together," does that mean you’ll be competing as an All Japan wrestler and facing off against the foreign wrestlers who come to Japan?

DESTROYER: That’s exactly it.

BABA: I was surprised when he made the offer. At the same time, I was happy. It’s like gaining an ally with the strength of a million people. I couldn't believe it at first, but in the final match, he actually became my tag-team partner, and he was already offering all sorts of advice to the younger wrestlers. He gave us—literally—one hundred percent cooperation...

Q: He serves as a tag-team partner and acts as a coach for the younger wrestlers. Plus, his analysis of the foreign wrestlers is spot-on.

BABA: There’s something even more important than that. Take Mil Mascaras coming to the U.S., for instance—both he and The Destroyer are masked wrestlers, but who is actually stronger? Or, regarding Dory Funk Jr., which would come out on top: his spinning toe hold or his figure-four leglock? And if "Iron Claw" Eric were to arrive, would his signature move be effective even against a masked wrestler? I imagine these are the kinds of things fans would be whispering about.

Q: It certainly looks like a diverse lineup of matches; it’s sure to be a hit.

BABA: From my position, where I have a duty to deliver exciting matches, having The Destroyer join the fold is a dream come true.

He resolved that if he lost, he would lend his cooperation—partly as a way to repay the debt of gratitude he owed Rikidozan.

Q: Still, it was a bold move for The Destroyer, wasn't it? To switch sides and join the very people he had fought against all this time...You mentioned earlier that you got tired of chasing after Baba, but were there other reasons?

DESTROYER: In the ring, we were adversaries fighting tooth and nail, but once we stepped back into our private lives, Baba and I really hit it off. He is the laid-back type, and I am the impatient sort... We were polar opposites, you see.

Q: So, did you have a relationship in your private lives?

DESTROYER: That never happened in Japan. Exactly two years ago, I was holding the US Heavyweight Championship in Hawaii; since I had my family with me, staying in a hotel was a bit of a hassle. That’s when Baba offered me, free of charge, the apartment in Honolulu that he had been renting long-term to use as a training center.

BABA: It seemed a waste to just leave it sitting empty, so I let Destroyer use it. Mr. Moto from Los Angeles had asked me to do so.

DESTROYER: I used to talk a lot about pro-wrestling with Baba—who would visit Hawaii from time to time—while we trained together on Waikiki Beach. We really saw eye to eye on a lot of things.

BABA: That’s right. There were times when we disagreed and almost came to blows right there on the beach, but generally speaking, we got along pretty well...

Q: Even with you being arch-rivals in the ring, you often find common ground in everyday life... Isn't that just how the world of sports is? Of course, there are rare exceptions—relationships where you never want to see the other person's face again as long as you live.

DESTROYER: So, as I prepared for my tenth tour of Japan, this time with All Japan, I made a firm decision: if I beat Baba, things would continue as they always had; but if I lost or the match ended without a decisive result, I would simply put our past relationship aside and cooperate with him. 

BABA: He never said anything like that. On the contrary, he’d actually try to get me riled up by saying things like, "You're finished—I'm the one who's taking the belt..."

DESTROYER: Heh heh... well, I’d certainly like to have Rikidozan’s belt myself. After all, I was the one who faced him in his final match.

Q: That’s right—it was a six-man tag team match in Hamamatsu in December 1963...

DESTROYER: Rikidozan was a benefactor to me, he served as the stepping stone that allowed me to rise to the level of a world-class superstar back when I had only just started wrestling as a masked man. Since his two sons are now with All Japan, I am in a position where I really ought to cooperate with Baba.

Tsuruta, a man of immense natural talent, is groomed for greatness by the duo of the "Demon King" and Baba.

Q: You certainly have a deep sense of loyalty and humanity... It is exactly what one would expect from someone like Destroyer, who knows Japan inside out. By the way, when do you anticipate moving into a full-scale cooperative arrangement?

BABA: I’ve been asking you to start working here in earnest—right away, if possible.

DESTROYER: I’d like to do that too, but I have a contract in the States... I’m contracted in Los Angeles starting in January. Still, I plan to adjust my U.S. schedule so I can get to Japan as soon as I can.

Q: I imagine every Japanese fan is hoping for that to happen as soon as possible. The match at the Korakuen Hall finale (December 21st), where the team of Baba and "The Devil" (Destroyer) faced off against Cyclone Negro and Moose Morowski, was truly magnificent. With exquisite teamwork, powerful double-team maneuvers, and even some humorous moments, many consider it the best match of 1972, even though no title was on the line.

DESTROYER: When you pair me—The Destroyer—who is number one when it comes to ring smarts and trickery, with the sheer power of Giant Baba, we’re unstoppable.

Q: That’s how it seemed. You really ought to head over to the U.S. soon and bring back the tag team championship.

BABA: I’ll consider that plan once The Destroyer has fully committed to our side—one hundred percent. It doesn’t necessarily have to be me teaming with him; it could be Thunder Sugiyama, Okuma, or Koma, for that matter... 

DESTROYER: Well, yes, Tsuruta, that rising star, is bound to develop in time. Speaking of Tsuruta, you’ll be giving him some thorough training, won't you?

BABA: Still, when it comes to the fundamentals, he really needs to go to the States and learn them first-hand, to feel them in his own skin. "Learn with your body, not just your head"— that’s the golden rule of pro wrestling. So, the plan is to have Tsuruta train in the U.S., and then, once he returns, The Destroyer and I will put the finishing touches on him.

DESTROYER: Tsuruta has amazing natural talent. He’ll be a real pleasure to train.

BABA: I’m sending Tsuruta to the U.S. to start from scratch under Terry Funk and the "Old Man" (Dory Funk Sr.). As for you, Destroyer, I’m counting on you to really put guys like Samson Kutsuwada, Akio Sato, and Mitsuo Momota through their paces—I plan to send them over there to polish their skills after they finish their basic training here.

DESTROYER: Leave it to me... I’ll even teach *you* a thing or two if you like—though it’ll be about golf.

BABA: Haha, sorry... There’s still plenty I’d like to learn from you when it comes to pro wrestling, but when it comes to golf? That’s something *I’ll* be teaching *you*. Heh heh heh.

DESTROYER: Well, I’m done with pro wrestling. After all, I never did manage to win...

BABA: Hearing you say that makes me feel a bit bashful...

With a solid foundation of decent box-office results and TV ratings established, this year is set to be one of great strides forward.

Q: So, the two of you will be dedicating yourselves to further study. Now, Baba-san, what are your aspirations for 1973 as you move forward with a powerful ally like The Destroyer by your side?

BABA: It’s all about pushing forward with full force. I believe the foundation for All Japan Pro Wrestling was firmly established in 1972. I heard that both the box office results and TV ratings for the opening "Giant Series" and the subsequent tour were decent, and the reaction from fans at the venues was something we could be satisfied with. We’ll build solidly on that foundation and put in even greater effort in 1973... It’s a cliché way of putting it, but that’s where we stand.

Q: What kind of formidable opponents are looking to come over?

BABA: Destroyer would know more about that than I do.

DESTROYER: So, for starters, Wilbur Snyder and Don Leo Jonathan are coming in January, right? Tell me, Baba—who are you planning to have compete for that World Heavyweight Championship belt—the one Rikidozan held, and which I never managed to win, after they arrive?

BABA: Well, Snyder and Jonathan should certainly be more than capable opponents for that...

DESTROYER: If you don’t lose to them, you’ll be awarded the belt, right?

BABA: Well, that’s a tricky one. So far, the men I’ve beaten are Terry Funk, Abdullah the Butcher, and The Destroyer. I also had a draw with Bruno Sammartino. If I don’t end up losing to Snyder or Jonathan, I wonder if the fans will truly be convinced that I’ve earned the right to hold that belt.

DESTROYER: Don’t you worry about that! You beat me, The Destroyer, didn’t you? That alone is more than enough to qualify you.

BABA: Personally, though, I’d like to face Bruno again and settle things once and for all...

DESTROYER: Let me ask you something—that belt was gifted to Baba by Rikidozan's family, right?

BABA: That’s true, but it was just the belt itself that was gifted; there’s no championship title attached to it. To establish a proper championship, I believe it would require recognition from a prestigious organization, or perhaps a series of high-stakes matches against top-tier wrestlers. 

DESTROYER: I understand your point. But look—Bruno was the top guy in the WWWF, Butcher in the NWF, Terry in the NWA, I was in the AWA, Snyder was in the WWA, and Jonathan was a top name in Canada and the AWA circuit. Since each of us was the top man in our respective territory, wouldn't it be enough to just beat the other two?

BABA: Heh heh heh... To think the Demon King himself would say that... Truly, that’s worth more than a million allies.

DESTROYER: Let's wrap this up quickly. As for those coming along later, you can simply grant them the right to take on the challenge...

Q: That line of reasoning holds up perfectly well. Destroyer, according to the information you’ve gathered, who else is gunning for this?

DESTROYER: There’s Fritz Von Erich from Texas, and Johnny Valentine—also from Texas. Then there’s The Sheik from Detroit, Gorilla Monsoon from New York, Mark Lewin from Australia... these are the main ones. You could also consider the likes of Pedro Morales in New York, Dory Funk Jr. in Texas, and Nick Bockwinkel in Minneapolis—all of whom currently hold titles.

Q: What about The Bruiser, The Crusher, and the others?

DESTROYER: They only just joined the IWE (International Wrestling Enterprise) toward the end of 1972, so I doubt they’ll be coming over anytime soon.

Young talents I’d love to bring to Japan—ready to invite them anytime.

Q: I’ve heard about some potential talent from the U.S. through The Destroyer. Baba-san, are there any other wrestlers you’d like to bring over to Japan?

BABA: Well, let’s see... there are plenty of up-and-coming young wrestlers—guys like Dick Murdoch (who revived the "Outlaws" tag team), Dusty Rhodes, and Paul Jones, who’s currently holding three titles down in Florida. Then there are wrestlers like Chris Markoff and Nelson Royal, who are solid on both offense and defense, the list just goes on and on! In short, if anyone wants to come to Japan, I’m happy to welcome them. And if a challenge arises—well, The Destroyer still holds the U.S. Heavyweight Championship, so we can certainly set up a title match for that.

Q: It sounds like your spirits are sky-high! Thank you so much for your time today, especially after a fun round of golf.

DESTROYER: You’re very welcome! Let’s meet again soon.

BABA: Thanks a lot!

Notes

The Golf match